...
Finally there most recent album is called Folie A Deux
The Tracks
The track listing of Folie A Deux
Track 1- Disloyal Order of Water Buffaloes
The track starts off with Patrick singing over an Organ, it almost gives it a chilly sound, but then of course the heavy beats join ... Read review
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right throughFolie À Deu...
Postage & Packaging: £1.21 Availability: Usually dispatched within 1-2 business days...
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right through Folie À De...
Postage & Packaging: Free! Availability: Usually dispatched within 24 hours...
Disloyal Order Of Water Buffaloes I Don't Care Shes My Winona America's Suitehearts ... more
Headfirst Slide Into Cooperstown On A Bad Bet The (Shipped) Gold Standard (Coffee's For Closers) What A Catch Donnie 27 Tiffany Blews W.A.M.S. 20 Dollar Nose Bleed Wes...
Postage & Packaging: £0.00 Availability: 3-5 working days
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right throughFolie À Deu...
Postage & Packaging: £1.21 Availability: Usually dispatched within 1-2 business days...
Music Poster: Fall Out Boy are an award-winning American pop punk band formed in 2001, ... more
consisting of Patrick Stump (vocals and guitar), Joe Trohman (guitar and vocals), Pete Wentz (bass guitar and vocals) and Andy Hurley (drums and percussion). 'Folie à Deux' is the bands fifth studio album, the title of which is derived from a rare psychiatric syndrome; the words literally mean "a madness shared by two".
Postage & Packaging:£2.25 Availability:Usually dispatched within 1-2 business days...
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right through Folie À Deux, Fall Out Boys fifth and most audacious studio album. Having already expanded their sonic palette way beyond emo with 2007s mega-selling Infinity On High (and to a much more successful extent than peers Panic At The Disco with their mainstream-chasing Pretty. Odd.) they really go for broke here, not only racking up track after track of glitteringly anthemic sing-along action--while also somehow managing not to betray the muscle that made them famous in the first place--but also visibly parading a line of notable guests in case you were any doubt as to their status as rock A-listers. Elvis Costello, Travis McCoy and members of The Academy Is... and Panic At The Disco crop up in cameos on Aerosmith-esque ballad "What A Catch, Donnie", all singing lines from previous Fall Out Boy tracks. We told you it was audacious. Lil' Wayne stamps some style on the Michael Jackson pop verse of "Tiffany Blews" and Debbie Harry duets the album to a close on "West Coast Smoker". Elsewhere, out of the VIP room, "Americas Suiteharts" still gets noticed by walking over ELOs "Mr Blue Sky" in Foo Fighters boots and "I Dont Care" throbs like the tattooed cousin of "Spirit In The Sky". --James Berry
Postage & Packaging:Free! Availability:Usually dispatched within 24 hours...
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right through Folie À Deux, Fall Out Boys fifth and most audacious studio album. Having already expanded their sonic palette way beyond emo with 2007s mega-selling Infinity On High (and to a much more successful extent than peers Panic At The Disco with their mainstream-chasing Pretty. Odd.) they really go for broke here, not only racking up track after track of glitteringly anthemic sing-along action--while also somehow managing not to betray the muscle that made them famous in the first place--but also visibly parading a line of notable guests in case you were any doubt as to their status as rock A-listers. Elvis Costello, Travis McCoy and members of The Academy Is... and Panic At The Disco crop up in cameos on Aerosmith-esque ballad "What A Catch, Donnie", all singing lines from previous Fall Out Boy tracks. We told you it was audacious. Lil' Wayne stamps some style on the Michael Jackson pop verse of "Tiffany Blews" and Debbie Harry duets the album to a close on "West Coast Smoker". Elsewhere, out of the VIP room, "Americas Suiteharts" still gets noticed by walking over ELOs "Mr Blue Sky" in Foo Fighters boots and "I Dont Care" throbs like the tattooed cousin of "Spirit In The Sky". --James Berry
Postage & Packaging:Free! Availability:Usually dispatched within 24 hours...
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right throughFolie À Deux, Fall Out Boys fifth and most audacious studio album. Having already expanded their sonic palette way beyond emo with 2007s mega-selling Infinity On High (and to a much more successful extent than peers Panic At The Disco with their mainstream-chasingPretty. Odd.) they really go for broke here, not only racking up track after track of glitteringly anthemic sing-along action--while also somehow managing not to betray the muscle that made them famous in the first place--but also visibly parading a line of notable guests in case you were any doubt as to their status as rock A-listers. Elvis Costello, Travis McCoy and members of The Academy Is... and Panic At The Disco crop up in cameos on Aerosmith-esque ballad "What A Catch, Donnie", all singing lines from previous Fall Out Boy tracks. We told you it was audacious. Lil' Wayne stamps some style on the Michael Jackson pop verse of "Tiffany Blews" and Debbie Harry duets the album to a close on "West Coast Smoker". Elsewhere, out of the VIP room, "Americas Suiteharts" still gets noticed by walking over ELOs "Mr Blue Sky" in Foo Fighters boots and "I Dont Care" throbs like the tattooed cousin of "Spirit In The Sky". --James Berry
Postage & Packaging:£1.21 Availability:Usually dispatched within 1-2 business days...
Once youve won the lottery you dont go throwing the same parties you used to when you were ... more
on a two-cans-of-cider student budget--you lay on a spread, you let people know what youre packing these days. Its a sentiment that runs right throughFolie À Deux, Fall Out Boys fifth and most audacious studio album. Having already expanded their sonic palette way beyond emo with 2007s mega-selling Infinity On High (and to a much more successful extent than peers Panic At The Disco with their mainstream-chasingPretty. Odd.) they really go for broke here, not only racking up track after track of glitteringly anthemic sing-along action--while also somehow managing not to betray the muscle that made them famous in the first place--but also visibly parading a line of notable guests in case you were any doubt as to their status as rock A-listers. Elvis Costello, Travis McCoy and members of The Academy Is... and Panic At The Disco crop up in cameos on Aerosmith-esque ballad "What A Catch, Donnie", all singing lines from previous Fall Out Boy tracks. We told you it was audacious. Lil' Wayne stamps some style on the Michael Jackson pop verse of "Tiffany Blews" and Debbie Harry duets the album to a close on "West Coast Smoker". Elsewhere, out of the VIP room, "Americas Suiteharts" still gets noticed by walking over ELOs "Mr Blue Sky" in Foo Fighters boots and "I Dont Care" throbs like the tattooed cousin of "Spirit In The Sky". --James Berry
Postage & Packaging:£1.21 Availability:Usually dispatched within 1-2 business days...
Advantages: Probably their best Disadvantages: Not everyones cup of tea
...most recent album is called Folie A Deux
==The Tracks==
The track listing of Folie A Deux
==Track 1- Disloyal Order of Water Buffaloes==
The track starts off with Patrick singing over an Organ, it almost gives it a chilly sound, but then of course the heavy beats join in and the song becomes even greater. I adore Patricks voice, I have always found it to be something very unique and as ... ...==The CD==
Folie A Deux which pretty much means Madness shared by Two (thanks to google) is the new album from Fall Out Boy and as soon as I borrowed it off my friend I was enthralled by the picture on the front. This is a yellow almost teddy bear, with a big grizzly bear on its back, walking along on a red background.
It's a very effective front cover; if you look very closely you can see a face within the yellow teddy ... more
I haven't brought this album, but borrowed it off a friend to see if I like it and of course, to stick all the tracks onto my IPod. I've had quite a stressful day and usually Fall Out Boy's songs are fun to listen to and sometimes even let you release some anger every now and then. As I sit here to review this CD, I don't know what to expect, every Fall Out Boy CD that I have brought, I have sold on and made a profit from, however hopefully this time, I won't be not enjoying it as much as the rest.
Attempting to limit how much I write, I bet you I will write the same amount as always.
Who is Fall out Boy?
Fall Out Boy are an American pop/punk/emo band from Illinois. The band consists of the lead singer Patrick Stump, bass player and probably the most famous member of the band Pete Wentz who also writes most of the lyrics and Joe Trohman (lead guitar) and Andy Hurley (drums).
So far they have had three albums including this one, which are under a major label. They are, From Under The Cork Tree which was released in 2005, this released one of their most famous songs, Sugar We're Going Down and of course Dance, Dance. Infinity on a High was next and this had tracks like Thanx For the Memories and This Aint A Scene on it.
Finally there most recent album is called Folie A Deux
The Tracks
The track listing of Folie A Deux
Track 1- Disloyal Order of Water Buffaloes
The track starts off with Patrick singing over an Organ, it almost gives it a chilly sound, but then of course the heavy beats join in and the song becomes even greater. I adore Patricks voice, I have always found it to be something very unique and as he doesn't really look like a music star, he really makes the world fall in love with his voice.
This song is not something special, I don't think it'll ever be a big hit, this is something that Fall Out Boy seem to be able to do and this song, despite being lush to listen to, is a lot like their earlier material and doesn't really have 'hit' written over it. The instrumentals add to the brilliance of the tracks.
Track 2- I Don't Care
This song is one of the ones they've released as a single, so it might seem very familiar to you. The song is quite rocky and Patricks voice is on form again and is brilliant. I know a lot of people like this song, but I'm not too keen, I think this is supposed to be one of those big hits that FOB seem to release, but for me it fails in comparison to the likes of Thanx for the memories or sugar we're going down.
This song is good, but nothing really rock's my socks, everything does work, but there is no star quality here for me. It's still an 8/10 rating, but it doesn't shine.
Track 3- She's My Winona
This track is another upbeat track, wouldn't listen to this track with headphones on if I was you, especially if you do have a headache forming as it does hurt. Patrick voice as always is amazing, his voice as always is the centrepiece of this track and really does show off his range amazingly within this track.
Okay this track is not another shiner, like I come to expect from FOB but it is a very catchy track, and one that you must listen to if you like this band, the lyrics are amazing but for me it is Patrick who steals the track.
Track 4- America's Suitehearts
Okay again another very heavy number which is starting to get quite painful, but however I LOVE this song. I think this song is the best on the album so far and I've had it on repeat for quite a while so far, maybe why I have the headache, but this song is just amazing, from the start beat which is very catchy to when Patricks voice joins in your caught within the trap.
You do have to like this style of music to like this track, if you don't I'm sure you will disagree with me, however for me this track is just amazing, really catchy and really beautifully preformed by the whole band, they all seem to be on form within this track.
Track 5- Headfirst Slide Into Cooperstown On A Bad Bet
Okay probably the weirdest title ever and the start of the song is weird just like. Patrick's voice doesn't sound the same as it does usually and for me this track just doesn't really work especially compared to America's Suitehearts. It's a very unique song; I don't think I've heard another track like this before but not in a good way.
There is a very strong beat throughout the track, but it just doesn't seem to gel like other tracks on the album, I'm not saying this is a bad track, far from it, it's pleasant to listen to and fits right in with the other tracks on the album, but it's quite unmemorable and I don't think it's the sort of song that you'll remember after listening to the whole album, it'll just fade into the background.
Track 6- The (Shipped) Gold Standard
Another great track from FOB, this track is another shiner from the band. The only thing I'm disappointed with with the album so far is that I haven't heard anything wit is in the same league as Sugar Were Going Down or Thanks For The Memories, these songs when I first heard them, I knew they were going to be big but for me this album doesn't have many if any of these kind of tracks.
This song is one of the best on the album, it's brilliantly sung by Patrick who shows his vocal range on this song and the lyrics are brilliant, I believe most of the lyrics are written by Pete Wentz. A fantastic overall song which is really well worth listening to.
Track 7- Coffee's For Closers
Wow, I really think Patrick has one of the best and unrecognised voices in music at the moment, his vocal range for a bloke is just amazing, he manages to have quite a high voice without it sounding too much like a gal. I think this is one of the best tracks on the whole album as it's really well sung and the music works so well with the vocals and lyrics.
I really am not sure about the song titles they have chosen they are very random, and I don't remember hearing Coffees For Closers within the song, it's just a very weird name, but we're talking about the music here not their choice of song titles. A brilliant track, really well produced.
Track 8- What A Catch, Donnie
A power ballad? From Fall Out Boy, don't worry you're not the only one that nearly doubled over in laughter, but do you want to know what's even more surprising, I enjoyed it, a lot more than a lot of the tracks on the album. However if I didn't know any better I wouldn't say the lead singer is Patrick as his voice is too deep during the verses, in the chorus it's definitely him but I'm not too sure about the verses.
Despite this it's a beautiful track and amazingly doesn't really seem to feel out of place on this emo rock album or whatever you want to call it. This song is amazing, Patrick's voice during the verses is very diffent and unique, it really works well with the rest of the song. Beautiful.
Track 9- 27
Another very upbeat track from FOB, I think I'm still in shock from the power ballad before, but this track for me took me a while to enjoy. The song is very upbeat like you would come to expect from FOB and everything seems to work brilliantly. Patrick's voice is just brilliant and Pete Wentz's voice joins in quite a bit during this track.
Another amazing track from this band, very catchy.
Track 10- Tiffany Blews
Not a fan of this track for some reason, It almost sounded like the music was running away from Patrick as he was singing, it just felt badly produced, however his voice is amazing and as are the instrumentals but together they just don't seem to work as well as I would like.
Another good track, but again there is nothing special here and this track is probably the weakest on the album so far, it seems quickly produced and just doesn't all come together well.
Track 11- W.A.M.S
After much searching I found out what WAMS means but it looks like I really can't use it in a review, the WAM stands for Words Aint Mean... and I'm sure you can work out for yourself what the S stands for. The song is the weakest on the album by far, even Patrick's voice can't even make up for it. It just doesn't sound like a good song and really doesn't fit in with the rest of the album. Well that's a lie; it's a very upbeat track but a very boring one at that.
For me this is the weakest track on the album and I really think they could have made this track a to better, the lyrics were god, but just way too repetitive and just got boring after a while.
Track 12- 20 Dollar Nose Bleed
For a Fall Out Boy track this is a very upbeat one, it's almost seems very unlike them, I noticed another voice within the track and when I looked within the booklet it does tell you that Brendan Urie of Panic At the Disco sings alongside Patrick. They did make a mistake with this as they both sound very alike and with the song 'What a Catch Donnie' I thought that Patrick had just changed his voice.
I think this song is one of the best on the album, both boys voices are on top form and I would really love to see a video for this as I just think it would be immense. A fantastic performance from both Patrick and Brendan and they have preformed one of the best songs on the album, very enjoyable to listen too.
Track 13- West Cost Smoker
Another good song from Fall Out Boy, they haven't produced a painful one yet, this is a very catchy and really works with the drum beat and the bass beat throughout it, I think this is one of Patrick's best vocals throughout the whole album, it's so powerful and just works so well with the rest of the song.
I haven't really given out a shout out to the rest of the band, but they really all produced something brilliant here, everything came together and it all was a heavy emo rock masterpiece.
Track 14- Beat It (bonus)
I heard this the other day in a dressing room in Republic and fell in love, I even think, shocker I know I prefer this track to Michael Jackson's version, it's a very great cover and really works very well. I know people are going to moan about this track, I was recently looking at the video on YouTube and the idiots on that site are just amazing, saying that this emo crap has ruined a song.
This is a very good cover version, it's very different to the original, they have kicked it up four tempos and the whole thing is a more of a rock song than a pop song. The rifts throughout the track are just brilliant, I think this is probably the best track on the whole album, for me, it really stood out and really made me sing along and I really did enjoy it. Check out the video on YouTube for more fun.
My Opinion
That's it for the track listing, looks like I've written as much as always, am really trying to cut down but it just tends to spill out of me now. For me, I have always kept it a secret that I like Fall Out Boy. As most of you know, I am a rock chick and love rock music and you really can't call Fall Out Boy a rock band, I think you're seriously get egged for that, they aren't a rock band, more like an emo band, I have no idea what they truthfully is, but it seems to fit this band perfectly.
For me the whole band has produced some great songs over the years, yes I know a lot of people won't like the music and may even not like the style of music, but I think, saying this very carefully, that Fall Out Boy are a great band, who have produced some amazing music.
If you listen to some of the tracks, specifically off this album then you will understand what I mean by the fact that they are all great musicians, okay maybe not Hendrix, Flee or Brian May good but they seriously know how to pull off great riffs and they seriously know how a song should be produced and put together.
This is a very enjoyable album, there is no doubt about that, first thing I must say I never usually like this kind of music, but since Fall Out Boy first came into the music scene I have enjoyed most of the singles they have released and have brought most of their albums, even if they hadn't spent too long in my collection.
The Singer
Patrick's voice is amazing throughout the whole album, I think even my favourite albums, the lead singer produces something that doesn't work with their vocals but each song on the whole album works for Patrick and really works amazingly well with his voice.
For me, okay probably not the best vocal, but the most shocking vocal has to be 'What a Catch, Donnie' when I heard this song, not only was I shocked that it was a damn power ballad but as well as that, Patrick's voice is so different to other songs that he's preformed, even so much as I had to search through the credits booklet to see if one of the other band members had sung the verse.
The Lyrics
I think Fall Out Boy are always looked down upon due to the fact they are classed as an 'emo' band, there lyrics must all be about slashing their wrists and death and all of that crap, but they really do write some great lyrics. Pete Wentz is the main writer of the tracks and he really does write from the heart, there are some great lyrics in the whole album, it's a shame they
The Band As a Whole
This is one of the best bands around, okay maybe it's not everyone's cup of tea and I might be egged for that, but seriously listen to them. The way the songs are all produced, ignore what you hate, ignore the fact that they're an emo band, just listen, they pull off some amazing riffs and boy is Patrick Stump talented, he really has an amazing voice and shows it throughout this track.
Together I think the band works in sync, they really have produced some fantastic tracks on the album, it's so fun to listen to and for me sometimes that trumps everything else.
The CD
Folie A Deux which pretty much means Madness shared by Two (thanks to google) is the new album from Fall Out Boy and as soon as I borrowed it off my friend I was enthralled by the picture on the front. This is a yellow almost teddy bear, with a big grizzly bear on its back, walking along on a red background.
It's a very effective front cover; if you look very closely you can see a face within the yellow teddy bears mouth. A great cover.
Final Opinion
Okay, I don't really consider myself a Fall Out Boy fan, for many reasons. I only like a few of their tracks and I would never really consider paying a lot of money for the CD's and wouldn't really want to see them in concert, however I do think they're very talented.
For me the highlight of the whole album was Stumps voice, I think it has got a lot better from previous albums and just seems to work really well with the rest of the music. His voice is great, there are some very shiny moments throughout the album and his voice is really one of the best of its kind.
I do have an annoyance about this album and it's not about the band or the music, it's about the reviews I've read on it. One I've just read on Amazon to see what other people think of it, made me chuckle out loud. I'm not going to go too much into it for the confidentiality of the reviewer however he pretty much slags off Fall Out Boy, saying he doesn't like their music and hates this album because it's pure pop and is just awful. Get what I'm trying to say here, he didn't like Fall Out Boy but still spent however much on the CD, who else thinks he's a big liar.
You really have to be a fan of this kind of music to like this CD, if you don't stay clear as you'll probably hate it and the one thing I really do hate is people reviewing it, when they know they don't like Fall Out Boy already. If you've not heard of Fall Out Boy before, you should check out some songs on YouTube.
Is the album worth the money?
Yes, well I didn't actually buy it, I borrowed it, however I think for the price you can get it for, if you like FOB then you will think this CD is well worth the money. It's a great CD and for a proper fan or for someone who just likes the band then checks it out.
Hope this helps, looks like I wrote just under what I usually write, I really am going to have to learn to write less but when I'm passionate about an album (whether I like it or hate it) then it just spills out of me.
Advantages: Great Lyrics, Superb Guest Vocals Disadvantages: Might be to 'samey' for some people.
I'm a huge fan of Fall Out Boy, not one of the modern fans, one of the fans that was with them from the very beginning. The band has changed considerably, but I've still consistantly got them on my iPod and they're apparently my most played tracks on Last.fm So, after hearing a few singles which were released before the album itself, I was extremely excited to get my hands on a copy. Thankfully, I work at HMV, so I get it a few days before it's released ... ...on High' are guarenteed to get more kicks from this album, however it's quite unoriginal, but is that such a bad thing? No, not really, the band know what they're good at, and they're going to keep it up. Lyrically, it's substantially different. Pete said in an interview that previous lyrics were quite selfish and mainly were based on his personal emotions and tribulations. This album however dabbles in politics, drugs and well...community in general! ...
bengoeswild 20.03.2009
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Ciao members have rated this review on average: helpful Review of Folie A Deux - Fall Out Boy
Here we go again - Let the media write their epitaphs, let the haters vent their spleens across blog boards and websites - Fall Out Boy have released a new album. For fans desparate for a return to the days of 'Take This To Your Grave' this collection of songs takes them even further away from their original, rough around the edges punk rock - The production is gleaming, pro-tools perfection - Finely tuned under the auspices of top producers. As ... ...with smart, showy lyrics, and slower, weaker balladry. The high velocity tracks work the best, both 'Coffees for Closers' and opener ' Disloyal Order of Water Buffaloes' are effective call to arms, shout out loud anthems guaranteed to reverberate around arenas worldwide The downside is the over reliance on guest appearances, some of which flash by without recognition - Its difficult to notice Blondie or Brendan Urie on their respective tracks, although ...
navidson 11.02.2009
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Ciao members have rated this review on average: helpful Review of Folie A Deux - Fall Out Boy
Advantages: Very addictive, nice sense of music and presentation Disadvantages: A little too punkish
...all presentation. their latest album Folie A Deux is a mix of quiet a few songs, these people have a variation in their music, this album covers from slow songs to to downright rock type songs. They have an amazing way of presentation and are not going to leave the business soon, these guys will keep rocking their audiences till they've reached their last breaths. Fall Out Boys are just an amazing band which will definitely get you addicted to their ...
thecoolbro 07.03.2009
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Ciao members have rated this review on average: somewhat helpful Review of Folie A Deux - Fall Out Boy
Advantages: Originality Disadvantages: Not enough tarcks!
Well, where to start. Its one of the best albums I have ever listened to. Patrick Stump's lyrics just take it to a world of its own. Each song sounds lke it has been carefully written so they all sound similar but also completely different at the same time. They are completely 100% original, apart form their version of Beat It by Micheal Jackson (and could posibly be better than the orignal). For me, the best is 20 Dollar Nose Bleed. Even from the ...
alexcapper16 01.06.2009
· Read full review
Ciao members have rated this review on average: somewhat helpful Review of Folie A Deux - Fall Out Boy
Product Information for "Folie A Deux - Fall Out Boy" »
Product details
Title
Folie A Deux
Performer
Fall Out Boy
Genre
Rock & Pop
Sub Genre
Punk Rock
Release Date
15/12/2008
Original Release Year
2008
Label / Distributor
Mercury / Universal Music
Pieces in Set
1
Studio / Live
Studio
Format
Performer
EAN
602517884076
Catalogue Number
1788407
Additional notes
Album Notes
The fifth full-length album from arena-filling, Des-Moines pop-punkers Fall Out Boy was announced in a typically dramatic style, with band leader Pete Wentz leaving a series of cryptic clues across the internet leading up to the date of the 2008 American Presidential Election. Wentz has revealed Oasis as an inspiration for the album, as well claiming it has 'folk styles'. It is preceded by the singles 'I Don't Care' and 'Headfirst Slide Into Cooperstown On A Bad Bet'.
Titles on disc 1
1.
Disloyal Order Of Water Buffaloes
2.
I Don't Care
3.
She's My Winona
4.
America's Suitehearts
5.
Headfirst Slide Into Cooperstown On A Bad Bet
6.
Shipped Gold Standard
7.
Coffee's For Closers
8.
What A Catch Donnie
9.
27
10.
Tiffany Blews
11.
W.A.M.S.
12.
20 Dollar Nose Bleed
13.
West Coast Smoker
14.
Beat It - Fall Out Boy & John Mayer
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Listed on Ciao since
06/10/2008
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